Corey Noles, staff writer for The Daily Statesman and Editor of The North Stoddard Countian, is the author of a regular baseball/St. Louis Cardinals column and also uses his blog to sound off on various happenings in sports. He also operates a weekly baseball mailbag column.

Michael Vick and what a few local boys didn't learn

Posted Sunday, October 21, 2007, at 9:20 PM

Corey Noles photo Not much need for a caption here.

When I woke up Saturday morning, sleeping in for the first time in weeks, I had no idea what I would see first-hand before the end of the weekend.

Writing as a journalist I can't insert my opinions or share my thoughts as I see things, so that's what I'm going to do here tonight.

When I went to bed Saturday night, after the Annual Bess Truman dinner that I had covered earlier, I knew I would be back at work before dawn but I didn't know the specifics.

At about 1 a.m. Sunday I pulled up to the home where Jamie Sifford lived and ran his "operation". Numerous law enforcement officials and the Humane Society Animal Rescue crew filled the yard and walked the road searching for more dogs.

I've seen footage of dog fights on HBO Undercover and some other shows, but I've never witnessed what happens afterwards.

As I walked up to one of the three Humane Society vans I came to a pair of small Pit Bulls chained to posts. My first reaction was to jump because they had startled me, but they weren't what I had expected.

When I think of dog fighting, what comes to mind are snarling beasts that remind me of The Hounds of Hell from the 80's horror flick The Lost Boys.

The first dog, a young red Pit Bull that scared me initially, slowly walked over towards me with his head tucked down to the ground. Reluctantly, I reached out to pet him and he stretched his neck and licked my hand. I guess I had gone out there with the idea that these dogs would treat people the way they have been trained to treat other animals.

As I was petting this young pup, we were standing not five feet from one of the guys soon to be charged in this fiasco.

Next, I was shown the barn where the fights had taken place. At first glance, it looked like any other barn. But, a single stall right between four horses told a much different story.

Lining the bottom of this stall where I imagine several dogs have met their end, was a mess of old carpet and a plastic poster. All stained with the blood and urine of the dogs scattered about the property.

Across the barn from that stall was a utility type room where a Pit Bull mother and five VERY young pups laid feeding.

All of this just made it so much more clear who the real monsters were here and it wasn't the dogs.

A clearing back in the woods about a half-mile from the house and barn is where the majority of the dogs were found.

Each hooked to about 10-feet of chain and many with bandaged wounds, they all looked so pitiful (as is clear from the photos) and were just as friendly and starved for attention as the first I came across.

Some of the dogs had fresh bandages, assumed to be treating wounds from Thursday night's fights. It's amazing that after the way these people treat the dogs, they also treat their wounds. I guess that's because there's no money to be made from dead dogs.

The careful attention given by the Humane Society workers and all of the law enforcement agencies should be commended. This group of individuals worked over night and through Sunday making sure everything was in order and taken care of.

I don't really know where I'm going with this, I suppose because this is the first minute I've had to sit and reflect on the whole incident.

I just felt like it was important to share not only my story, but my emotions.

I just finished writing the story that will post Monday and it relayed the events, but not the story as it was felt. Trying to tell a story like this without emotion simply won't do it justice.

Comments

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Corey,

You've done an outstanding job of portraying the scene and your emotions as well. I commend you for your expertise at keeping the emotional side in check while the journalist must persist in getting the story out. One can only hope that this barbaric crime will be aptly punished. Such a sad commentary on our society. So interesting, as you cited, that the parties would tend to the wounds, but then you are so right in stating that there is no profit in dead dogs. Tending to the wounds is likely the only humane element of their operation.

-- Posted by Noreenmhyslop on Sun, Oct 21, 2007, at 10:17 PM

Corey Noles' response:
Corey, this is Madeline. Hope you don't mind if I respond to this issue. Sasha and I attended the Animal Welfare class conducted at the Justice Center in Bloomfield Thursday night. No one could have imagined that a dog fight was scheduled that very night! Kyle Held and Christina Portman of the Humane Society of Missouri briefed the Stoddard County lawmen on so many issues of animal abuse - but the one that I, as a retired teacher, was most impressed by was the effect that animal cruelty has on our children. When they grow up de-sensitized to animal cruelty, they so often turn out to be insensitive to ALL life, whether animal or human. A "worthless" puppy becomes a "worthless" human.

I am so impressed that Sheriff Carl Hefner invited the Humane Society down to Stoddard County to offer this course for his people! The horrifying news of the weekend just makes the course all the more relevant. I just wish some caring individual had notified the Sheriff that the fight was going to happen that night!
Corey, I saw the KFVS footage last night and this morning. Can you believe how grateful those dogs were to be rescued? They were wagging their tails!

Sadly, there may be view options for the dogs, once they aren't "evidence" anymore. I've heard that the Humane Society of Missouri, the very agency which helped rescue them, is NOT accepting pit bulls anymore - because they're so hard to adopt out. Many communities have anti-pitbull ordinances. In fact, doesn't Dexter have one?

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Oct 22, 2007, at 7:23 AM

Corey Noles' response:
Yes, Dexter does. As a matter of fact it was a big issue very recently. Several of my stories on the subject are on the website here.
Can you imagine what this does to kids minds if they are raised up with this mess?

If I was the perps,I'd worry I was turning my kids into serial killers and they might just whack me in my sleep,to see what humans (?) did when they die.

I wonder how tough these freaks are in jail, how they rank on the food chain, etc.

What is the possible sentence that they could receive? (IF a deal isn't cut)

Now,can everybody get behind my campaign to bring chain gangs to Stoddard County?

I'd like to see these bums with a load of gravel in July on these mosquito infested gravel roads!

-- Posted by CharlesSmith01 on Mon, Oct 22, 2007, at 11:06 AM

Corey Noles' response:
On its own, dog fighting is only about four years in prison. However, it will also depend on the individual cases. Sifford, for example, is already on probation with a three-year suspended sentence. That means that he will serve that three years and chances are anything else would be tacked on top of that. As for the other guys, I haven't heard much about them, but that's what I'm looking into today.
Good job Corey. So sorry you had to witness it, but if you hadn't been there we might not have heard the whole thing. How terribly sad for the dogs. They won't have a chance for a good life with kind (normal) people. I like CharlesSmith01's idea of putting the perps on a chain gang - with only about 10 feet of chain like they put on the dogs. It would be nice to know how they'll fair in the prison population. I hope they're treated about as badly as those who abuse children.

Keep the story and the aftermath in the public eye and don't let anyone forget! Assuming they are convicted and go to jail, I'd like to see some follow up stories about how they're doing a few months, six months and a year from the arrest date. Then compare that with how the dogs are doing at the same time.

-- Posted by Ducky on Mon, Oct 22, 2007, at 12:51 PM
I looked it up in the Missouri Statutes: Dog fighting is a Class D felony, which is punishable for not more than four years, and the place of confinement is determined by the court.

Anybody here think that four years is enough?

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Oct 22, 2007, at 3:46 PM
Corey, I empathize w/ you on having to see a horrible scene like that. Being an animal lover, I don't think I would have had the stomach for it. You should also be commended. If you go look at the comments on the stories themselves, you will see that there is even a person defending Jamie. Which is hard to stomach. But I hope you will do extensive follow-up on this story...especially on the dogs. They looked SO sweet. Pit bulls really aren't a bad breed...it's the people like Jamie and the other two that make them seem so bad.

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Mon, Oct 22, 2007, at 9:00 PM

Corey Noles' response:
Thanks for your kind words. I assure you I plan to keep up on the case. I'll be in court when these guys are. I' also planning a couple follow-ups on the dogs. I will be in St. Louis visiting family in a couple of weeks and have plans to stop in and check on them.

It was a hard deal to stomach just as it would have been for anyone. However, it's the once in a lifetime opportunity to be involved with exposing something like this that is why I love my job.

I'm curious to see who else is arrested in connection with this.
Good point dude-Jamie & his crew aren't exactly high rollers (Diamond Jim trailor trash) that could be all of this operation.

I hope that EVERYONE who helped,betted or watched this mess gets a visit from the po-po!

It's disgusting to think some have gotten so trashy we have this in our county now.

People used to let druggies buy all they needed to make meth-it's none of my business mentality-until it was a crisis in the county. Once Johnny Law cracked down on "precursors" and the ability to get them cold tablets,it started to turn around. Maybe if Mr.Welborn cuts a deal with one of them,they'll start talking. I hope you get a good picture of the ankle chains when they perp walk to court-it's a start!

-- Posted by CharlesSmith01 on Tue, Oct 23, 2007, at 8:55 AM
I think that this is a terrible thing...BUT, I am much more concerned over all these Mothers killing their babies. People get on issues that are not as important as other things. Why do people care more for dogs than humans. Lets take all the tax payers money to be spent on these and other things and SAVE OUR CHILDREN.............

-- Posted by mgulmer on Tue, Oct 23, 2007, at 9:08 AM

Corey Noles' response:
I understand your point and I think you're right. For instance why is this case receiving more widespread attention than the Owen Welty case? My honest guess, and I'm reasonably sure someone will be offended by this, is that I like animals more than I like most people. They're loyal, friendly, they're always happy to see you and shut up and listen when you've had a lousy day. How many people fit all of those categories?

I know you're talking about abortion and that's a different subject than what I'm referring to when I say people. Children are the exception. However, we hear about abortion in the news every single day. We hear about murder every single day. Dog fighting is new and it's a fresh topic. That's why people are taking such an interest right now.
mgulmer-You are right to express your opinion,but remember it is yours alone. No one can change it or take it away from you,and they will try for sure.

I may even agree with you,murder is wrong,but that isn't the topic being discussed today.God gave us all the beasts it's true,but it doesn't say to gamble and encourage their violent deaths for your own sick amusement.

You don't have to be a Christian to know this mess is perverted and wrong.

GOD BLESS YOU & YOU HAVE A SUPER DAY!

-- Posted by CharlesSmith01 on Tue, Oct 23, 2007, at 9:46 AM
I'm with you Corey. I like most animals more than I like most people.

Animals have no voice with which to cry out against their oppressors.

Animals have no standing in a court of law - they can't sue on their own behalf. They can't demand protection. If they fight back in their own defense they're killed. They can only sit at the end of a 10 foot chain and suffer abuse in silence.

-- Posted by Ducky on Tue, Oct 23, 2007, at 12:39 PM
Who says that we have to choose between children and animals? We can support both. In fact, they actually fit quite well together. Love is love. We don't have a limited supply, so that we have to ration it out, like we're dishing out ice cream.

Love is never-ending. The more you give, the more there is - and you can spread it around a very, very large area. In fact, you can spread it around the entire world!

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Oct 23, 2007, at 2:19 PM
The people conducting dog fights are entrepreneurs filling a market need. As long as the demand exists, it will be filled. The only possible hope of curbing it is to make being a customer very costly. Prosecute the customers for conspiracy in the promotion of dog fighting and you might put a dent in the practice. Otherwise it will go on with a different cast of characters providing the entertainment the customers want. The only way to go after the customers is with the cooperation of the operators. And it is likely that the only way that is going to happen is to give them immunity from prosecution.

But don't hold your breath for the prosecutor to do that, because he knows that respected members of the community could well be involved as customers -- and a criminal conviction would end their careers.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Tue, Oct 23, 2007, at 2:58 PM
I am not talking abortion I am talking of breathing living children Thank you

-- Posted by mgulmer on Tue, Oct 23, 2007, at 8:02 PM
Every time there's a publicized cruelty case, someone has to come along and say that we should be focusing on children instead of animals. What you're not realizing, mgulmer, is that violence begets violence, whether it's directed at an animal or a human. Animal suffering and human suffering are intertwined. All abuse starts with a desensitization to the suffering of other living beings--a lack of empathy. Most abusers start by abusing small animals before moving on to abuse the animals with whom more people sympathize, such as cats and dogs. If the abuser isn't taught that it's wrong to torture the mouse or beat the puppy, he or she may not see (later in life) that it's wrong to beat his or her child. The step between animal and child not a very big one in most abuser's minds.

We have to instill in the human race (especially children) a compassion and empathy for ALL living beings, otherwise the cycle of suffering will never end.

-- Posted by Youngest Child on Wed, Oct 24, 2007, at 9:29 AM

Corey Noles' response:
You hit the nail on the head with that one.
Well put, Youngest Child. That says it in a nutshell.

-- Posted by Ducky on Wed, Oct 24, 2007, at 1:32 PM
Wow! Yes, it does!

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Oct 24, 2007, at 1:44 PM
What in the world? This makes no sense. Cruelty to animals has nothing to do with what a person would do to a human. I grew up with a weapon in my hand on most days of my life for hunting. Do you think that means I would be de-sensitized as you call it and not understand the difference between an animal and a human life? What I might have done or not done to a mouse has nothing to do with how I feel about humans.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Oct 24, 2007, at 11:13 PM

Corey Noles' response:
I don't think "hunting" and what's being referred to as cruelty are at all the same thing. Everyone in this area hunts so by that standard we'd have ore serial killers than squirrels.
The FBI uses animal abuse as a way of profiling violent criminals. Every famous serial killer abused animals as a child. Of course every child who grows up harming animals isn't going to become the next serial killer, and I'm not saying abusers don't understand the difference between an animal and a human life, but if a person isn't made to understand that it's wrong to maliciously inflict pain on others, the abuses can escalate.

Also, many people (even those opposed to hunting) can easily designate a difference between hunting and malicious torture.

-- Posted by Youngest Child on Wed, Oct 24, 2007, at 11:25 PM
Thanks Corey-

I have never even thought about dogfighting,or any animal fighting,but you better believe I'll be in the deer woods every year I'm able.

I don't know why any one thinks one has something to do with the other,because I haven't read where they eat the dogs they fight.

Please don't start with hunters are the same as people who even watch dogfighting-them's fighting words.

You couldn't live in Missouri if there weren't deer hunters,they would destroy all the fields,yards and start entering buildings-it would be unreal.

Let's stay on topic and don't put us hunters in the same breath as these punks.

-- Posted by CharlesSmith01 on Thu, Oct 25, 2007, at 8:32 AM
There is a HUGE difference b/t hunting and animal cruelty. Hunting is a way of survival for some, and conservation for others. And although you see many people in the court news for taking wildlife unlawfully, most hunters in this area do it legally, to keep deer and squirrels and turkey from invading every inch of the country. You eat turkey on Thanksgiving right? So are you saying that the store bought turkey you eat to give thanks is killed in a cruel fashion for the mere pleasure of the ones processing it? I am unsure how hunting and animal cruelty have anything to do w/ each other...could you please enlighten me.

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Thu, Oct 25, 2007, at 8:53 AM
To be clear, I never brought up hunting. I wrote of animal abuse, and laws specifically exempt hunting from the definition of abuse. I.B. LeTruth was the first one to bring up hunting, so he'd have to answer as to why he's comparing hunting with torture.

And no, I don't eat turkey on Thanksgiving. I'm vegetarian.

-- Posted by Youngest Child on Thu, Oct 25, 2007, at 1:19 PM
I absolutely approve of hunting for food, but if you kill an animal purely to mount the head on a wall as a trophy, which is what a lot of people do then it becomes something different. How about the highly promoted fishing practice of catch and release? Now what is that all about?

What I am saying I think is that if you abuse animals you will become desensitized to harming humans probably isn't an accurate assumption. I have met some people who wouldn't hesitate to take a human life, but would never harm an animal.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Thu, Oct 25, 2007, at 8:30 PM
Hello out there...We need to ban pit bulls. They are dangerous and they are bred to be killers. Their jaws lock when they bite and you must have a crow bar to pry open their mouths. I would like to know why the humane society won't take pit-bull dogs anymore. What are we supposed to do with them??????? Is it against the law to shoot them?????

-- Posted by mgulmer on Thu, Oct 25, 2007, at 9:53 PM
O.K. I am so upset with all of you over this issue. When I wrote in about what was really important in this is our living breathing kids. I am not talking abortion. I feel there is way too much attention given to this DOG issue. # 1 Pitbulls are banned in many areas where the community leaders have the sense enough to protect their citizens. Everynite that this dog issue has been on the news it seems someone has either put a baby in the microwave or in a diaper box in the attic or a child is molested. SO I DONT THINK DOGS ARE MORE IMPORTANT... IF THESE PEOPLE GO TO JAIL FOR ONE MINUTE FOR THIS I THINK IT IS A CRIME. We need to fill our prisons with people who molest children and the eldery not dog fighters. Ban pitbulls and get rid of them. That will correct the problem. Let us all focus on our children especially our kids that are dog fighting in another country.

-- Posted by mgulmer on Thu, Oct 25, 2007, at 10:13 PM
Sorry, but your solutions are naive and simplistic. If you researched into the story about the man who put his baby in the microwave, you'd probably find that he started in his demented thinking much, much earlier in his life. Chances are VERY good that he started out by torturing animals - then, as he got older and more bold, we can see where he ended up. If his cruel tendancies had been treated when he was young, a tragedy could have been avoided in the future.

Numerous people on these blogs have posted intelligent, insightful answers to your rantings about animals, but you prefer to ignore them and continue in your hateful postings. Your solution is to shout.

Judging from your extreme attitude, it's probably a good idea that you don't know where any of us live.

So much for love and compassion.

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Oct 26, 2007, at 7:37 AM
Nicely put goat lady.

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Fri, Oct 26, 2007, at 8:48 AM
I posted part of my 2 cents worth on Sacha's blog already so I won't repeat it.

Right on goat lady!

-- Posted by Lady on Fri, Oct 26, 2007, at 10:47 AM
The Bible says so many wonderful things like "not casting pearls before swine".

You can't change mgulmers mind,they are either trying to flame this blog or have a hidden agenda to distract us from the topic (for whatever personal reason).

If you can't have a civil debate or even rational conversation,maybe if we all just quit responding to "mgulmer" they will get bored and leave-worth a try?

-- Posted by CharlesSmith01 on Fri, Oct 26, 2007, at 10:50 AM
Agreed.

Right on Goat Lady. For the most part the comments on the blogs have been thoughtful and insightful. I enjoy a well written comment even if I don't agree with it.

Corey, is there any new information to be had that's not on the home page?

-- Posted by Ducky on Fri, Oct 26, 2007, at 3:50 PM

Corey Noles' response:
The most recent news should be posted on the main page now. My interview with the Humane Society in St. Louis yesterday and the information in regards to the truckload of new charges.

I do, however have names for almost all of the dogs, but I don't have time to post it right now. Sometime over the weekend I'll try to do that. The cute little white one that looks like Spuds McKenzie is named Bandit. That I know for sure, but I'll list them all later. I got a paper today that gives names and written descriptions of each dog.

They were apparently charged for each individual dog. Eighteen dog fighting charges for one person is a bunch.
Yes, that's my next strategy. I almost did it when she started shouting on Sasha's blog, but when I saw it on Corey's, too, I felt that someone needed to make one final statement - then silence. We've done it before; we can do it again, when things get ugly.

I was glad to read Sasha's statement this evening. She's a responsible blogger, and she takes a stand when someone is out of control on her blog (as does Corey).

I have been so pleased with the rational way in which everyone discusses issues on these blogs. I would hate to see us lose them (if that's possible), because some people can't behave.

Actually, I think it's possible to ban someone from the blogs. Seems to me that I read that somewhere when we first started.

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Oct 26, 2007, at 3:53 PM
That picture absolutely breaks my heart. No living creature should be subjected to this. I hope that our prosecutor will keep this in mind and these people will be punished to the fullest extent of the law!

-- Posted by luckyone on Fri, Oct 26, 2007, at 9:29 PM
Corey, how do you feel about sanctioned human boxing matches that are placed on pay per and the people that pay to watch and legally bet millions of dollars on?

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Oct 26, 2007, at 9:41 PM

Corey Noles' response:
I have mixed feelings on that. I don't have much interest in it, however, there's a major difference that and dog fighting: choice. If two grown men willingly decide to beat the life out of each other I say more power to them. I call it population control. Dog fights are different.

I would be against putting humans in collars and dragging them in to a ring to fight, too. Ever seen The Running Man?

I also look at cage fighting and toughman competitions different from both of them. Once again, population control, but brutal enough that I don't think young children should watch it.

In reading this I feel like it sounds a little bit rude and that's not my intention at all.

What's your opinion on this?
I feel a little guilty when I think about myself watching two humans try to knock each other out for my entertainment. Haven't done it for several years now.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Oct 26, 2007, at 11:02 PM
Seems to me that all the money and fame which Ali received in his boxing career isn't worth the physical and mental condition he's in today.

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Oct 27, 2007, at 8:34 AM

Corey Noles' response:
That's very true GL. I'm not anti boxing, I just don't enjoy watching it. In my opinion, anyone who does that type of organized fighting has to be a few eggs short of a dozen to begin with. Wrestling (like H.S., not the televised crap) and martial arts tournaments are operated differently however. There are more breaks and the goal is not to physically injure your opponent, but to score more points. I have no desire to watch any of these "sports".
As for Ali, he had to have known that one can only take so many whacks in the head before the number of healthy brain cells matches the number of fingers.
Very true and we all gathered around the TV to watch him do it and I don't feel very good about that...

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sat, Oct 27, 2007, at 9:35 AM
I have defended Jamie because I cannot and will not believe he is guilty of having dog fights for profit or for fun but if i am wrong then it wont be a first but does not the bible say 'do not judge, lest thou be judged'? Let the jury sort this mess out and all of you hipocrits sit down and watch some revival on t.v.

-- Posted by denene on Mon, Nov 5, 2007, at 1:44 PM
I am not sure we are all hypocrits. I don't think we have found them guilty or pronounced them innocent. I think we are probably more accurately discussing dog fighting and animal abuse. That is what I am concerned about anyway.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Nov 5, 2007, at 10:29 PM
I realize what you are talking about but i do know for a fact that Jamie was not having dog fights with large crowds of spectators as my family lives across the road from him and at no time have I or any of my family ever seen any large amounts of vehicles at his home, in the wooded area behind his home or on any of the property surrounding his home. To be honest, He never stayed at his home as he always spent his nights with his oldest daughter at his parents home. I just wish I could prove to everyone that what they are calling a big dog fighting ring is not as it may seem. Have any of you ever had a dog and cat and playing around said 'SIC' to the dog to get it to chase the cat? Then if so that makes you as guilty of animal cruelty as anyone else in my eyes.

-- Posted by denene on Tue, Nov 6, 2007, at 12:47 PM
That has never entered into my mind to do such a thing.Why would you ever encourage a dog to hurt a cat?

-- Posted by CharlesSmith01 on Tue, Nov 6, 2007, at 2:17 PM
I hate dog fighting, I have known some scumbags involved in dog fighting and these people are convinced that the dogs love to fight. The real problem with dogfighting is that most of the dogs that were confiscated will have to be put down. These dogs are no real danger to people, but rather they are a danger to other dogs. It is a very long, hard procedure to eliminate the fighting behavior in a dog. The Humane Society does not have the time or man-power to help these poor animals. I love pitbulls, these are loving and very loyal dogs who have a bad reputation because idiots like to watch dogs fight to the death. Remember no dog is born mean or vicious, it is how they are raised.

-- Posted by michaelc76 on Wed, Nov 7, 2007, at 9:23 AM
Well, some breeds of dogs have diffferent traits or breeding to do different things. If this wasn't so they would all be excellent bird dogs. There are some natural instinct in these dogs that allow them to be used for specific things and the natural aggression in Pit Bulls is what makes them succeptible to being used for fighting. Many bird dogs will point on a bird with no training at all and many Pit Bulls are naturally aggressive.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Nov 7, 2007, at 6:37 PM
15. Men and Women the average child molester in the USA gets 18 months in jail that is if they get caught. Children are more valuable than animals and yes that includes dogs. Mike Vick made a serious mistake and lost all of his endorsements, 2 full NFL Seasons and he is serving time in a Federal Prison. The true fact is 1/5 of all NFL players have been charged-arrested for a serious felony so Vick is one of many players that have made bad decisions. We live in a country that gives second chances and after Mr. Vick serves his sentence he should be allowed to pursue an NFL Career. Whats sad is here in America Senator Teddy Kennedy clearly got a free pass with the young lady his secretary??? that drown in a vehicle that he left her in and there was not 1/1000 of the outrage that there has been to crucify Vick. PS For you Females Peyton Manning in the past couple years settled out of court for CASH with a female athletic trainer that he supposedly exposed his self to at the University of Tennessee. Had Manning who was an 18 kid that did one silly thing been black he would have never been drafted in the NFL. What Vick did is horrible and he is being punished please let the young man move forward and get a life. ITs sad that in 2008 that race is still an issue on how we few things in America. God This was posted on aol thought I would share it

-- Posted by mgulmer on Sun, Jan 6, 2008, at 4:24 PM
You left out the part about Teddy's secretary being pregnant. Oh, and bank robbers and murderers don't get jail time if they don't get caught.

I think the statement about race is wrong. The difference was with the Manning case is his celebrity, not really the color of his skin. If I had done what he done I may still be in jail.

This article you posted is kind of twisting things.

Do you think the democratic party election going on right now is a referendum on the approval or preference of black men or white women. Is that what it is?

How do you make those statements when a black man is the current leader in votes for the democratic party?

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Jan 6, 2008, at 4:40 PM

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